This week I’m very excited to bring you my interview with celebrity voice coach and creator of The Voice Straw Mindy Pack.
Mindy has studied vocal technique, voice science, and vocal health with nationally and internationally renowned vocal instructors, educational institutions, and accredited programs throughout the world. Mindy’s philosophy is the minute I stop learning is the minute I stop teaching. Mindy has mastered the complex ins and outs of voice science. She has a thorough understanding not only of producing the best sound, but also of keeping the vocal apparatus in optimal health. Mindy holds certificates in Vocology from the National Center for Voice and Speech and is an accredited and licensed massage therapist in Utah and in California.
Mindy is part of some of the best voice teams and music industry professionals throughout the world. She works closely with laryngologists, ENT’s, artist developers, managers, record labels, vocal arrangers, producers, music directors, and more. Mindy is currently contracted with the voice teams of Ent Specialists in Salt Lake City where they are doing bio feedback sessions on voice disorders and manual therapy and with laryngologist, Dr Reena Gupta at the Center for Vocal Health headquartered in Beverly Hills, CA where she works in rehabilitation and technique training to not only the singers but voice actors, voice over artists and all voice patients.
Mindy has a full studio in Salt Lake City, Utah, and a satellite studio in Los Angeles, California, but she sees clients from all around the world via online sessions. Her roster includes novices and professionals of all genres and styles. She also works with actors, voice-over artists, motivational speakers. Additionally, she has experience working with transitioning clients and clients who have sustained vocal injury and are in rehabilitation and habilitation.
Mindy works directly with some of the biggest names in the industry as their primary vocal coach. Such as: Miley Cyrus, Lil Nas X, Brandi Carlile, Justin Timberlake, The Lumineers, Emily Sailers of the Indigo Girls, Halsey, Austin Mahone, Common, Royal Bliss, Tesseract, Nahko and Medicine for the People, Shaed, Chris Mann, and many others. These artists have applied Mindy’s technique and Vocal Tract Reconditioning to help them achieve optimal performance on long tours. Mindy’s clients have been on world tours, national Broadway tours, AMA’s, the Grammy’s, BET Awards, Saturday Night Live, and International Award shows. Some have become viral YouTube sensations, college scholarship winners, TV singing show contestants, and cruise line performers.
In this episode we dig into what it takes to be a touring vocalist at the top of their game and what it takes to be their voice coach!
“Dream bigger, because the only person that can tell you “no” is you” Mindy pack
For more info on Mindy check out her website. www.mindypack.com
I’m actually going to include the voice straw info in the notes of our next interview, because that’s what it’s all going to be about!
If you want more info about me or how to join in any of my upcoming programs go to yourfreevoice.com
Lets sing soon! ❤️
By the way if you enjoy this podcast PLEASE rate and review and share with your friends thank you SO much.
Click here for show notes and messy transcript
Julia Norton: I’m so excited. Yeah. And I think I like it. I dunno the words, whatever, but you know what I mean. I’m excited, I’m excited about today’s podcast ’cause I get to interview one of my dear friends and colleagues and a person who taught me how to have a healthy belt, uh, like many. Singers I’ve been belting for a long time, but, uh, it always felt like that real kind of pressure.
I felt a lot of pressure going on and I wasn’t able to soar into all those wonderful high fluid places. I had met Mindy at a conference down in LA that she was hosting along with Dr. Mina Gupta and um. During lockdown, I thought, wow, this is gonna be the time. ’cause I’m so stressed about being locked in a box here.
I need to learn how to belt more freely. So that’s what I did anyway. So, uh, I had some lessons with Mindy. She totally helped me get sorted out. Now I teach other people how to healthy belt, which is also exciting. Anyway, I am excited because today I’m interviewing Windy. It was supposed to be a twofold, uh, interview, but we got so excited about this topic.
Uh, we’re gonna have to do another one anyway. Enjoy. Bye. Hello and welcome to your Free Voice with me, your host, Julia Norton. This podcast is for people who use their voice professionally or for fun, and they want to understand how it works a bit better, or to get over old stories that might be holding them back.
Whatever level you’re playing at right now, my goal is to bring you lots of actionable stuff from the technical to the creative, to the deeply woo, to help you free your voice.
Hello and welcome to episode 32. This morning I had the great pleasure of interviewing celebrity voice coach Mindy Pak. She is one of the warmest, most gracious, supportive, encouraging humans I know. And, uh, I think you’re gonna get a real kick out of this interview where we’re talking about what it’s like to be a celebrity voice coach.
Okay. So, enjoy.
Yay, Mindy Pack. I’m so excited. What’s up?
Thank you so much for making the time to, uh, have a little chat with me today. I’ve been kind of dying to get you on. Um, tell me, remind me the name of the conference that we met. You were hosting a conference down in LA before it became, right. It was called something else.
What was it?
Mindy Pack: I think at the time it was Vocal Masterclass that I do with Dr. Rena Gupta. Yeah.
Julia Norton: Yeah. It was so
Mindy Pack: top, no laryngologist. Yeah, I think it was Vocal Masterclass is what it was.
Julia Norton: Yes. And it must have been about 2019, I’m thinking.
Mindy Pack: Yeah,
Julia Norton: yeah, about 2019.
Mindy Pack: It was a while ago.
Julia Norton: So, uh, that’s where I met, uh, Mindy.
So, lemme just tell you a little bit about my guest today. She is a fabulous Mindy Pack. I’m gonna read a bit from her bio right, just to make her blush on camera. But, um, uh, Mindy was a vocal performance major at the University of Utah, but her education didn’t stop there. Throughout her career, Mindy has studied vocal technique, voice science, and vocal health with nationally and internationally renowned vocal instructors, educational institutions, and accredited programs throughout the world.
Mindy’s philosophy, which I totally love, is the minute I stop learning is the minute I stop teaching. Which is so right on. Mindy has mastered the complex ins and outs of voice science. She has a thorough understanding not only of producing the best sound, but also of keeping the vocal apparatus in optimal health.
Mindy holds certificates in ology from the National Center for Voice and Speech, and is an accredited and licensed massage therapist in Utah and California. Okay. Um, she also is part of some of the best voice teams in the music industry, uh, throughout the world. She works closely with Laryngologists, ENTs, artist developers, managers, record labels, vocal arrangers, producers of music directors, and more.
Who’s currently contracted with the voice teams and ENT specialists in Salt Lake City, where they’re doing biofeedback sessions on voice disorders and manual therapy with laryngologist, uh, Dr. Rena Gupta at the Center for Vocal Health, headquartered in Beverly Hills. I think those are two separate things, right?
Mindy Pack: Yep. Yep. I have a clinic that I work with here in Salt Lake and then also with Dr. Gupton La.
Julia Norton: Fantastic. And Dr. Gupton, how lovely she is. Um, and, uh, she works in rehabilitation and technique training to not only the singers, but to voice actors and voiceover artists. And all voice patients.
Yep.
Um, okay. So then.
You not only have this amazing studio that we’re talking to you today, I’ve just been like getting a little sneak peek of around all the things and, uh, these gorgeous images on the wall there of uh, um, uh, uh, sound waves and such. Yep. But you have a satellite studio in la
Mindy Pack: mm-hmm.
Julia Norton: But you see clients all over the world, uh, online, which I know because during COVID I said, teach me how to belt.
I gotta make some noise. Yeah,
Mindy Pack: that’s
Julia Norton: right. And that was completely awesome. I loved it. And you taught my son, actually.
Mindy Pack: I did,
Julia Norton: yes. For a while. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, additionally, she has experience working with transitioning clients and clients who’ve sustained vocal injury and are in rehabilitation and, and rehabilitation.
Mindy works directly with some of the biggest names in the industry as their primary vocal coach, such as Miley Cyrus, Lil Nas X, Brandy Carlisle, Justin Timberlake, the Lumineers, Emily Sailors of the Indigo Girls. This list is so long. I’m not gonna read the whole thing out, but there’s a ton. I’m very
Mindy Pack: lucky.
Julia Norton: I’m very, so again, yeah. Thank you so much for joining us here today and, uh, letting me, uh, ask you some stupid questions and hopefully some good ones,
Mindy Pack: right? There’s no such thing as a stupid question and I am honored.
Julia Norton: Aw, sweetie. I’m so glad to see you here. Okay, so question number one. Really important, really important question.
Mindy Pack: Okay.
Julia Norton: Can you please tell me about your childhood passion to be a singing heart surgeon? Yes. What
Mindy Pack: was, yes. Well, I mean, I was always interested in health and the science and you know, being a doctor was. Something that I always looked at. I just, I wasn’t, which is funny ’cause I’ve done a lot of schooling, but school wasn’t my favorite thing.
Julia Norton: Sure. Yeah.
Mindy Pack: And so, like, looking at it, um, from a, from a school standpoint and going through it, I was just like, yeah, I’m, I’m not gonna do it. Um, but my goal was to literally be a heart surgeon and a singer on the side. So kind of like double agent, like by day I’m in the. In the, OR by night I’m on stage and you know, eventually as I went to college, things kind of went and merged a different way, you know?
But in some ways I still feel like I am part of the health, not sort of, I am part of the health community by being in the clinics and being the. You know, massage therapist and being able to work on the body as a whole to help voice production. So I still feel like it’s married a little bit, just not a heart surgeon.
Julia Norton: It totally is. And I think that’s what’s so fascinating about it is, is that it sounds like, like from quite an early age, you got it, that the voice wasn’t just a neck up situation here. Mm-hmm. It was like a whole body deal. Right. So, and I think not all, um. People who are aspiring to be singers even get it right, like right at the beginning.
There’s, you know, it’s not, it takes a little bit of time, so it has to be a whole body event.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and, and it totally runs through all of your work, like everything you do. When I, when I, when I met you in la Sorry, but when I met you in LA that, that conference was really eye-opening to me about how much.
Was and how many different an animals, how many different avenues there are, right to explore. Right.
Mindy Pack: 100%. Yeah. And I think that’s, I’m hoping that the cultural dynamic regarding voice production is starting to shift because I think growing up in my training and possibly your training, it just wasn’t talked about.
Everything was just focused about the throat and the vocal cords. Mm-hmm. You know, going through. But as you know, more information and technology and science and everything that’s, you know, coming to light. I think that that sort of. Way of thinking is gonna be the, the future. The forward thinking is realizing that it’s just not what’s happening on the vocal chords.
It is a full body experience, both, not even full body, but also emotionally and mental connection as well to it. Mm-hmm. So I think it’s just, it’s a whole body as a whole.
Julia Norton: That’s really, really true. And I think that’s where, when you were having that, um. Awakening, like as a kid and you know, teens or whatever about, oh, hang on, it’s a whole body thing.
I was having that about, oh my God. It’s like all our emotions. It’s like the voice is an emotional tool. Mm-hmm. Like for me it was kind of that, you know, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I totally get that. It’s not, there’s not any separation between any of it, in fact, and like, I guess those performers that really move us.
The ones that have not only mastered the physical act of singing, but they’re connected to the emotion and the spiritual kind of a hundred percent wall is in there too. Right?
Mindy Pack: I think that actually makes the performer go from a singer to an artist.
Julia Norton: There you go. Right?
Mindy Pack: I think when, when the emotion is connected into there and they’re taking the storytelling and that connection through.
That takes it from a singing experience to an actual artist experience.
Julia Norton: That’s a lovely way of putting it. Yeah. I love that. Brilliant. So you did your training, you did other things.
Mindy Pack: Mm-hmm.
Julia Norton: Like at what point did you think. I actually like to be a celebrity voice coach because it’s not ever occurred to me.
I will tell you that. Right? Like, what, what, what? Where did that come from?
Mindy Pack: I mean, it kind of wasn’t out the gate at first. Like when I first, when I first started teaching and doing like teacher training courses and like started going through their, like everybody always listens to people on the radio and they’re like, oh, I wonder what that voice is like, or something like that.
But I remember. When I realized the power of manifestation and like realizing is I went to a teacher conference, I was probably, what, 22 years old. And they give you the same like, write down your 10 goals of becoming a teacher. And I was like, okay, you know, I wanna be there for my clients. I wanna listen to my clients.
Like, you know, going through your standard, typical answers. Yeah.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: And my number eight was One day I’ll work with Justin Timberlake. And it wasn’t until I was, and I had completely forgotten about it and it wasn’t until I was on tour with him and I came back home and when I get overstressed or like feel like things are a little crazy, I organize, I’m a really big organizer.
Julia Norton: Yeah, me too.
Mindy Pack: And I was cleaning out. A closet. And I found this journal that I had written in, and I remember opening it up and reading it and started laughing and going like, oh my gosh, like this has happened 20 years later. And I snapshot a picture of it and sent it to him. And I was like, look what I just found.
And his response was, well, clearly you need higher aspirations. And my response back was clearly, but, um, I think from, uh, like starting to teach, it was always like. I just wanna be there for anybody. And still, like, I have an amazing roster of clients as you know, but I still teach young kids, you know, for, so for me it’s like about if somebody’s willing to learn and grow and push and letting me help them, like I’ll work with anybody.
Mm-hmm. So it necessarily wasn’t, I wanna work with a-listers and like be there because there’s a whole other dynamic that comes with that. Mm-hmm. Um, but just, I just wanna be the best that I can be and be there for anybody at any level as long as they’re willing to learn.
Julia Norton: Right. I think that was the kind of follow up question that I was thinking about that and, and, and, and thinking, is it that you wanna just be the best coach you can be?
And that’s kind of like a. That’s kind of a measure of that. Like if you, if you are able to coach those people and hold your own and not be riddled with imposter syndrome and everything else, right. Which may, maybe that happens from time to time. ’cause it’s a, that’s a pretty normal, um, excuse me, like turn of events, but.
Like May, it was a marker for you maybe of like, that’s, then I know that I’m really doing my job properly if I can sustain these clients. Was it like that?
Mindy Pack: Yeah. I mean, I think it was also like just learning, like you get to like certain levels in your education, at least for me, where it’s like, okay, I have some of these basics down.
Okay, now I need to dig into here. Okay, now I need to dig into here. And then I, I got vocally injured when I was, what, 32? Yeah, about 32 years old. And from there that really changed where, um, my trajectory went because when I got injured, it wasn’t because of anything I was doing physically or vocally. I got injured because I went through a major life trauma, um, which people have heard me talk about my son was kidnapped when he was four months old.
I have him back. Everything is fine. That’s a whole other podcast. Oh
Julia Norton: yeah. Really?
Mindy Pack: But that stress and that trauma manifested itself in my voice because I wasn’t sleeping. I couldn’t function, like my emotions were all over. And I felt incredibly isolated, very alone. I felt ridiculed by my community because at the time, the stigma of voice injury was something that you do.
And I didn’t do anything. Mm-hmm. And so I just, that day on. I was like, I don’t never want anybody to feel like they’re alone or going through something. And that experience, as traumatic as it was, turned out to be the most incredible experience of my professional career because it completely shifted. My education, and that’s where I went into the ology program.
I really started studying rehabilitation. And because of that training, that’s actually how I got in with the celebrity clients was because I focused on the rehabilitation and rehabilitation. And I was empathic enough to be there when somebody was injured and be like, I got you. You’re not alone. Let’s fix this and let’s move on.
Hmm. And so, so
Julia Norton: yeah, your, yeah, your empathy is huge. And it, and it, and it’s. From the very first time I met you at that conference and you’ve never met and who I was, but you just, you have this, um, uh, really like everyone is every, like, you treat everybody the same. Like whe thank you no matter where they’ve come from and, uh, and what reputation they have.
You just warm and uh, you connect and I can imagine that. Actually, that’s why I got into trying to teach vocal health to, uh, voice actors was because I lost my voice ’cause of the fires and a virus and then yelling at Thanksgiving. That was my fault. But, you know, like, but, but it gave me, it was a real kick up the butt for me.
’cause like. I’ve been teaching voice forever at that point, and I felt like I got this, I know how to protect my voice and use my voice and, and like I hadn’t at that point, I didn’t understand the layering, like that trifecta effect of, you know, one thing plus this thing, then another thing. Um, and that gave me, um, a way of really understanding where some of my voice actor people were coming from.
Yeah. But I can totally understand how that changed. Trajectory and, and I’m not gonna ask you about the kidnapping ’cause that would be a whole.
Mindy Pack: We, that’s what I mean. I’m actually open about talking about, I’ve talked about it on, on other things and Yeah. And that, but it’s, it’s one way of, of the outlook, you know, like,
Julia Norton: yeah.
Mindy Pack: I, I look at it as a learning experience and something, I mean, and I still, you know. There’s still little triggers that come here and there, you know, like as things go with young kids. Yeah. But it really did turn out to be a really powerful and beautiful thing for me in shifting the mind and really being there and really understanding that.
There are emotional components that can affect the voice, especially for creators who uses this tool to express. And so when you feel a loss of power, loss of voice, loss of something, you know, for people that are active with this, other people, it may manifest somewhere else. But for me, that’s, that’s where it was.
And at the time, I couldn’t. Put two and two together, and then I finally latched it together and it was like, oh, okay. I need to, this is, I, I received the information. Thank you universe.
Julia Norton: Ah, right.
Mindy Pack: Let’s go. Yeah.
Julia Norton: Right, right, right. Fantastic. Yeah. Um, so I think I’m, I’m kind of just like throw all my questions.
I’m throwing them out the window now because it’s just more interesting.
Mindy Pack: You’re good.
Julia Norton: Um,
Mindy Pack: we’ll just do a follow up. We’ll just do like a Yeah, we series.
Julia Norton: Um, so I think that’s the thing, right, of like, you are able to work with celebrities because you are able to see deeply inside them as human beings who are creating this art through their voices and need the support and respect like an equal, but somebody, do you know what I mean?
Like, it’s not, oh, I’m gonna put you on a pedestal and therefore I dunno how to. Because I think lots of people would be, lots of, you know, I’m, I’m counting myself with lots of regular voice coaches. Right. Would feel intimidated for sure by the idea of trying to work with celebs. But it sounds like your superpower is kind of like your, a ability to see the humanity in everyone and just be there like for someone.
Does that feel, that’s
Mindy Pack: a, I need that tattooed on a shirt. That’s, uh, I love that. That’s a great compliment for me. Yeah. And I, I think. You know, in that world. Yes, I agree with you. Like, you know, I, people ask me all the time and I’m like, they put their pants on just like. You know, they do things just like me.
They just have a lot of zeros in their bank account, you know, essentially. Yeah, sure. But I think the biggest thing in that world is that you have to be a strong personality and you have to be an advocate for the artist because there’s a lot of, uh, politicking that goes around and you have to, you know, you have management, you have labels, you have other.
Team, you have all these other dynamics, um, and you really have to be there for the artist and, and advocate for them or be there for them or help them call the shots. And, um, yeah, I mean, there was one time where I was in, um, the, it’s like one of my favorite shows and or my, and I was on tour. And I had sat there for a little while and I’m, I’m in the audience and you know, when I’m on tour, I have all the set lists and the lyrics and everything, and I’m going through every sentence and I’m watching how we hit notes, how we come out of it, and just looking at patterns to see if there’s patterns that we need to work on.
And I realized that on these certain patterns, this client was constantly like singing flat live. Okay. So I start in the next session when we do a warmup, I start to address it and like go through it. And this artist was like, I don’t do that. And I was like, but you do do that. And a manager at there some time, there’s a guy in there, I didn’t know who it was at the time, but there’s a manager there and like other people were in the room and it like went silent.
And I had only been there like maybe three or four weeks. And so I’m like still like the newbie on a well-oiled machine. And this artist was like, I don’t do that. And I was like. You do. And he is like, I don’t. And I, and I knew at that point it was a do or die moment for me. I could either cower and say, okay, fine, we won’t do it.
Or I could double down and say, no, I know I’m right. And I chose to double down. And I just said, listen, like I’m listening to it. And if nobody’s telling you from your front of house, from your sound, from everyone else. Then why am I here? Like if you were doing wrong staging or if the lighting was wrong, like it would be addressed.
So why am I not allowed to address the vocals when I see an issue? And this person just kind of, and I was like, fine, I’ll make you a bet. You can either, you know, you know what you pay me for this week or what my rate is, whatever.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: If I’m right, you have to pay me double. And if I’m wrong, you don’t pay me anything, but I’m gonna count how many times in your show and in the audience.
I’m gonna flash you my iPad so you can see this huge old iPad coming up in your face every time it happens. Do you wanna take the bet? And everybody is like dead silent in there. They’re like, no. Like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe she’s like calling this out. And this artist said, Nope, I’m not taking the bet.
So I was like, all right, cool. Well, did I still flash the iPad every time? Heck, yes I did. So we go out in the show, we address, you know, I warm up, whatever. We go to the show every time. Boom, boom, boom. I’m flipping the iPad. They get to a certain part of the show and I walk. Like, you know, ’cause I have the, I walk up to the stage where I know it’s like the big moment and I walk up to the front.
So I’m like right there looking at the artist and he, they just look at me and they mouth, they just go, you.
And I’m like,
and so after the show, we walked back to the green room. And I’m like, oh, you know, I’m like doing my like mocking guess.
Julia Norton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mindy Pack: Totally. And we get back into the dressing room and the man I, the guy who was in there who I’d never met, I realized, was a long-term manager for many years.
Julia Norton: Okay. Okay.
Mindy Pack: And the manager finally looks at the artist and looks at me and he goes, this person is honest.
This person is real. Do not lose her.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: Because it was the first time somebody pushed back and was like, no. Let’s fix it in a really long time. And I think that’s kind of what. It was a really good learning experience for me to show like I do have opinion. I’m just not there to be there. There’s a way of saying it gracefully and encouraging and like getting your point across, but also advocating for a better show and to push them to be better like.
Julia Norton: Right, exactly.
Mindy Pack: They’re at that level. They still need to be pushed. They’re at that level because they have drive and energy and effort and they’re hard workers and everything else. Like
Julia Norton: yeah,
Mindy Pack: they like that. And so like when you, it’s just knowing that balance. But that’s like one of my favorite stories.
Julia Norton: That is a really great story because it is that thing of like, it’s not always about kind of just the kind of soft, encouraging, supportive, confidence building stuff. Sometimes like you say, like you’ve gotta say, ’cause who else is gonna tell ’em they’re singing flat? Like nobody else is gonna do that, you know?
Yeah. Amazing.
Mindy Pack: Yeah. No, yeah. I mean, and that’s you and that’s my job. You know, like if you have a choreographer coming in and you were hitting a 5, 6, 7, 8, wrong, do you think they’re just gonna let it pass? No. So why, why are the vocals any different? It’s not, yeah. And that’s when like my job is to realize that, realize that.
Julia Norton: Yeah. No, I love that. And that’s such a great, so, so. What is like, do you have any other kind of stories of like, I don’t know, where you met, maybe saved the day or when something really dramatic happened or like, ’cause all of us we’re all kind of like curtain twitches about all this kind of stuff, you know?
But like, you know, and, and also like. Do you go on the tour bus or like, how do you get, like what about all that? What about, you know, any other,
Mindy Pack: yes. Tour bus is not my favorite. I feel like I’m literally in a coffin to sleep. Um, but I mean, it’s, it’s super fun. I mean, I’ve been very lucky. Sometimes I’m on the tour bus with the artist and other times I’m with the crew, you know?
So it just kind of depends. Um,
Julia Norton: yeah.
Mindy Pack: You know, tour, like a lot of pe it’s, there’s some really, really beautiful and wonderful aspects, you know, seeing the fan, like my favorite thing is, you know, as a performer myself, like knowing what it’s like to stand on stage and get that endorphin rush and like see the people happy in the audience and everything else, but.
Now not being the performer like I was early on, but being on side stage and looking out in the audience and seeing that you are some small cog in a big wheel of providing the audience the joy that they’re there to see. Yeah. Is just as fulfilling. So there’s some really. Really wonderful moments.
There’s also, it’s like Groundhogs Day sometimes where you’re like, what city are we in? Where are we? Like, it’s just like, because it’s such a well-oiled machine, it’s just because you travel at night, you know? So like daily, daily tour life is, you know, you usually have to report into the arena or the theater at three o’clock.
You do a warmup, you do soundcheck, you go through notes, you have dinner, you have some space, and then you go do another warmup before a show goes on. Go through last minute, minutes. Then you go to the show, you watch the show, then afterwards you do a cool down body work in there, depending on what’s happening and who we’re with.
And then you break down, you get on the bus, you unwind for a minute, you sleep, and then you wake up in a new city. Wow. Six, seven in the morning. You get a room key. If you get a room key, you get off into a hotel, you go into the hotel and then you sleep till like, ’cause you don’t really, you really only sleep from like three in the morning till, you know, nine or 10 at night.
And then you just do the same thing. The next day, you know? So it just kind of depends on where you’re at.
Julia Norton: It’s really next level in terms of like from the performer point of view too, like the amount of stress their body’s going through in a tour, plus then doing these massive shows for what, two hours?
Sometimes longer?
Mindy Pack: Yeah. I mean, look at Taylor Swift right now. She has 42 songs or something like that that she sings. Dade Matthews, they perform for. Four hours. Um, you know, Justin’s show was two and a half hours and we were always laughing, being like, we threw a pedometer on him. And like every show he does, he’s like doing almost a half a marathon, you know, from all the choreography and the spacing.
And so there’s a
Julia Norton: lot and day after day.
Mindy Pack: Yeah, day after day. So there’s a lot of stuff that goes into it from the vocal health to the physical health, to the hydration, to the food that you eat. And that doesn’t even account for. Meetings and press and RO radio promo and you know, if they have brand deals and photo shoots and still trying to have a private life, and, you know, like, I mean, there’s a lot that goes into it and that you see in certain aspects.
So, and
Julia Norton: that’s all, that’s all vocal use, right? All the interviews and all the everything and, and even the behind the scenes meetings and everything. It’s all vocal use, right? So
Mindy Pack: yeah. 100%. Yeah. And it’s like radio shows and then it’s like certain bands, you know, like. I remember, excuse me, out with like Lumineers, like we had their huge show where we were working on and then they had acoustic shows and then they had radio shows.
And I’m literally like, what are you doing? You know? And so like really sitting with a tour manager and then like, this is what we have to do. And like helping them realize, you know, ’cause a lot of it comes down to the money, you know, like you’re in a city, so you gotta get all this and this and this. But at some point it catches up to you.
And so like being strategic on certain things and letting the artists know now, sometimes up and coming artists, like, you know, where they don’t have these huge budgets or maybe they don’t have the say with the label and the management. Yeah. But really advocating on like what it is. Like what is healthy demand, what is not healthy demand, and when to shut up and when to talk and you know, like doing all these things.
And so it’s just getting into a habit so that when you’re touring. You don’t have to cancel shows or when you have a show leading up to it that you just are stra, you know, the strategic and strategy behind it. It’s for the best use of, of the voice.
Julia Norton: And so when you are doing your warmups, like on tour
Mindy Pack: mm-hmm.
Julia Norton: And the work and fixing stuff that maybe wasn’t right the night before or that kind of thing, do you have like the work session earlier in the day and then just a gentle warmup before the show? Or, or how, how, how do you get them ready like that?
Mindy Pack: So typically, I mean, every client’s different depending on what the show is and what their voice is like.
If we’re on a day three of back to backs, yeah. The warmer’s gonna be different than the day one.
Julia Norton: Right.
Mindy Pack: You know? And so I am of the point where a lot of people be like, how often should I warm up? And there’s not a set time. When the voice is warm and you’re balanced, you’re done. Like don’t, you don’t have to overseeing it.
It’s not a timed allotment. Yeah. So there’s been some times where a warm ups been 10 minutes and I’m like, you’re good. And they’re like, really? And I’m all yes. Like, unless they don’t feel that way, um, then we’ll like mentally get it there. Um. But if they’re like struggling and we’re doing it, then it may take me 20, 25 minutes, like fighting with the voice to get it to work and Yeah.
Yeah. In certain areas. So it just, it’s really unique on, on what it is. So, yeah. And usually in sound check for me, um, some artists don’t want critique of their songs and their lyrics, and you have to respect that, you know? So it’s just like, for me, it’s like when I, when I have an artist that’s like that, I’ll watch and see what’s going, and then I trick ’em.
In their warmup to be like, this is how this feels. And then I’ll be like, Hey, so when you’re doing this song, do you see how that feels right there? That’s the feeling. And then they’re like, oh, I see what you just did right there. I’m like, what did I do? You know, like going through it. But I’ll usually take three songs of the set, like they’re three hardest, or three where they’re struggling.
And this pre soundcheck will warm ’em up, do everything, and then I’ll be like, Hey, run through this chorus, fix that. And then those are the songs we run in soundcheck so that they can get it in their body the right way. And then those are, instead of focusing on 40 songs.
Julia Norton: Yeah,
Mindy Pack: we have three songs, so it’s not so in their head For the artist.
And those three songs may change night to night based on what they did the night before.
Julia Norton: I love that. And so when you, when you are talking about, um. Lyrics and stuff. Is it that you are, they’ve written a lyric where, where, where they’re gonna have a really wide open sound on a, on a mix. You know what I mean?
Like on their register break or on a really high, and, and you’re trying to show, like, choose a different word? Like, like is it that kind of thing that you’re talking about tricking?
Mindy Pack: Yeah. I mean, well, it’s that, or it’s like watching the approach. So like, usually like when you go to the high note, as you know, from our sessions.
Yeah. It’s not necessarily the high note that’s out, it’s the, it’s the five notes leading up to it. Yeah,
Julia Norton: yeah,
Mindy Pack: yeah. So it’s like looking at what is that pattern? Is the L too high? Is it too low? Is it this that, are you like screaming the vow? Is it a volume? Are you pushing too much air? And so we really just kind of like lock it in and get that figured out so then they can execute on stage.
Because nobody, I don’t want anybody, and nobody should, when they’re performing, be focused on technique.
Julia Norton: Right.
Mindy Pack: They should be focused on the artistry of it and conveying the message and having fun. Yeah, so my whole, my whole view as a coach is there’s a foundation and there is a home base that is so solid for you that you can go out and you can experiment, you can play, you can get all these different vocal textures, tams tones.
That is what gave you your fingerprint. Now, if there’s an issue when we’re like really running into an issue, then we’re gonna fix it and make it better. But I don’t want them to be like, okay. I’m hitting this note, okay, here’s my lyrics, here’s this, here’s that, and then, because then they get in their head too much and then it takes away from the experience of your audience and for the artist, then they, it, it doesn’t become fun anymore.
Like when you’re on stage, you need to remember why you wanted to do this. Not that it’s, I mean, yes, it’s a job, but it’s also like you had a passion for it, so let’s make sure we keep that passion alive instead of. Suffocating it with stuff that you don’t need to do because the stress is already there from so many other elements that I, so many wanna take the stress away from them.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: Let me worry about the voice. You go out and have fun.
Julia Norton: That is so true, and I feel like I, I’m trying to communicate that with my students all the time as well, is that thing of like, we do this technique now so that you don’t have to think about it later. Right? Because, because you can tell when somebody is caught up in thinking about that kind of stuff.
It does kill it flat. So, um. This is, I think, gonna be my last question about this. I mean, I could honestly talk to you about this for the whole hour. ’cause it’s fascinating, right? Yeah. And like, it, it is one of those, you know, it’s like, uh, coaching NBA people or, or, you know, it’s like proper high level, the most, uh, hardcore athletic version of, you know, and I’m imagining like for opera singers on tour and that kind of thing too, right?
Yeah. It’s, it’s, um, it’s insane. But because we. I think because we know that the voice is such a, you know, has, to me at least it has such a connection of spirit. It feels like the most vulnerable part of you that you can share. Like if I was a guitarist, I’d have something I could go and it’s not like, it’s not like soul’s not coming through the guitar, but there’s something about the breath coming from the lungs and it feels like.
It feels very, uh, exposing right? And well,
Mindy Pack: yeah, it’s coming
Julia Norton: from your
Mindy Pack: body,
Julia Norton: right? It’s coming from you, your whole self. And so you have these people with this incredibly naked part of themselves on the most visible stage and stages around the place.
Mm-hmm.
I, I feel like there must be situations when you are also kind of like the therapist or the confidant or the something, ’cause you are the person who helps them get that soul out on stage for want of a better way of saying it.
Is that, does that feel, do you become that person sometimes?
Mindy Pack: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean you’re, you know, a lot of times. With anybody. You know this, like you’re in a private room one-on-one.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: And there’s things that are expressed and shared
Julia Norton: mm-hmm.
Mindy Pack: That maybe other people don’t know about. Mm. And you need to let them get that emotion out so they know how far they can go into it.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: You know, like, um, I just watched yesterday. Uh, KA Perry. I’ve never met Carrie. Paid, I don’t know Carrie Pa. Yeah, I do not know her. I, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I’m saying that right now. Like this is not coming from behind the scenes.
Julia Norton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mindy Pack: But they filmed her documentary and watching her as she’s.
Struggling and so sad from when she found out that her and her husband, he wanted the divorce. She had a show that night. She’s literally in the chair crying. Her whole team’s around her, what do you wanna do? The audience in the stadium is packed and you can hear him yelling her name. Katie. Katie. And you just watch her.
Just try to pick. And the team was amazing. They’re like, we’ll do whatever you wanna do. And she’s like, no, I’m gonna go do it. And you just watch her just like, shift into this. I’m gonna, I’m gonna perform. But just knowing how difficult that show would’ve been to go through and it was, uh, it was, it was really fascinating.
’cause there’s been many, many, many moments, you know, where. I’ve been, I’ve had experience of watching that same thing, you know, with some of the clients that I worked through. And just seeing ’em shift that hat and like how to do it. And that’s when it always goes back to, and I always say, no matter where your mind is at, your heart’s already there because we’ve been preparing for this.
So just go in and trust the technique and the foundation that we had. And if your voice cracks up there, it’s because you’re emoting. And that is never a bad thing.
Julia Norton: Yeah, right.
Mindy Pack: And you know, and like we just go through it because everything’s there. And so. You know, it’s just, it’s a game. You’re dealing with human tissue, human flesh, like it changes day to day.
You know, for women, as you know, vocal health, medication, sleep, crying, allergies, hydration, like all of that will change, you know? And so you just have to go with that moving target and just be authentically you and be the best you can be.
Julia Norton: Mm. So true. Well, that was a great finisher on that. I will just ask you just before, because I, I do wanna give you the opportunity to kind of credit some of the people that have helped you come along, like the people that have mentored you and given you the confidence to step out in this amazing way that you have and have this amazing career that you have.
I mean, who have been the people that have been most important to you in terms of encouragement or mentorship?
Mindy Pack: I mean, first and foremost is always gonna be my husband. You know, he embarked on this journey and. You know, has never once shied away, especially these last few five years, where it’s been incredibly difficult.
He has a high profile job too, but he’s never once balked it. You know, being kind of a single stay at home dad for a minute while I went out and did all of this and just rooted from. The sidelines and just encouraged all the time. So he’s the first and foremost that I could never have done this without him.
And you know, my kids like rooting from the side sidelines of, you know, doing that. And I love that I can show my kids that mom has passions and mom has dreams and mom’s out there doing this too.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: You know, instead, you know, it’s just. That family unit, unit for me has been pretty powerful. Um, I wouldn’t have gotten into the celebrity coaching if it wasn’t for Rob Stevenson, who’s my partner.
He himself has been incredibly, um, positive and nurturing, you know, with me. And he, he’s the reason why I got to see Justin actually ’cause he’s Justin’s main coach and then conflicts arose with his schedule and that kind of got me in there. And he’s been probably. One of the number one supporters and like, he’s the other one that’s like, ’cause this world is so crazy, like, he gets it.
So it’s, we can talk back and forth, you know, with it. Um, so yeah, I mean my husband and Rob probably are like the main two. And then, you know, my voice coach, who I’ve had for, you know what, 15, 16 years now and still see is Greg Enriquez. Mm-hmm. You know, like questions or troubleshooting or going back and forth.
He is been one that, um. You know, that I talk to quite often and you know, Dr. Gupta, she’s definitely one and
Julia Norton: mm-hmm.
Mindy Pack: You know, Dr. Teesa, who for me for many years, and his daughter Karen Cox, like I was never taught voice science. I didn’t know what voice science was like. It was such a weird concept to me.
And you know, he made me, the first time we met was hilarious ’cause I actually didn’t know who he was. I was friends with Karen. And Karen was like, do you wanna come meet my dad for dinner? And I was like. Do you wanna meet my dad? Like, like
Julia Norton: I,
Mindy Pack: I didn’t know what we were talking about. I’m like,
Julia Norton: okay, sure.
I’ll be
your dad.
Mindy Pack: You know? And I was literally at dinner. This is how stupid I was. I was literally at dinner with her dad and he was talking about the voice, and I was like. Man. And I literally said to him, you are so passionate about the voice, like, are you a singer? Like, do you do anything in voice? And I just thought he was supporting Karen.
’cause she was an SLP and like just, and Karen, I’ll never forget it, she like puts her like fork and knife down and she looks at me and she’s like, what? And I was like, did I, did I say something wrong? Oh my God. And then she’s like, she’s like, Mindy, my dad’s. Like the leading voice scientist in the world.
And I felt so lame at that moment where I was like, I should know this, but I didn’t, ’cause I didn’t do, I did application. I didn’t do any of the voice site stuff.
Julia Norton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mindy Pack: And he just started laughing so hard and. Like, we’ve kind of been inseparable sense. Like
Julia Norton: Yeah,
Mindy Pack: I, like, he opened up my world to voice science and I opened up his world to out voice outside of ACA Academia.
Julia Norton: Yeah.
Mindy Pack: Yeah. And like, it’s just been this beautiful marriage and, uh, he’s helped me so much that I, I mean, I gotta add him to the list because I can call him and ask any questions that just seem so remedial and dumb. And he doesn’t make you feel that way. He’s like, that’s interesting. Let’s talk about it.
We just, he, lets go. So I would say, you know, those, those, you know, those are kind of like my, I love
Julia Norton: that.
Mindy Pack: My core right there.
Julia Norton: Yeah. And you know, um, a few of those names are familiar from coming down to that conference that you ran in LA
Mindy Pack: mm-hmm.
Julia Norton: And I know that I. Didn’t know, and I’d been teaching voice for probably 22 years at that point.
But from this very therapeutic kind of emotional,
Mindy Pack: yeah.
Julia Norton: Uh, more kind of, um, expressive arts therapy approach. Yeah. Because I hadn’t done, you know, uh, a voice degree or, you know.
Mindy Pack: Yeah.
Julia Norton: So, um, it had been this very different, different approach and I came and I’m like. What is happening? Like my whole little brain completely exploded.
My pen caught fire trying to take notes, you know, like it was totally, my phone kept running outta juice ’cause I was taking so many pictures of like, I’ve gotta have to take a picture of that ’cause I dunno what they’re talking about and I’m gonna have to, you know. So I went to charge my phone up. I didn’t realize it was like in the speaker section at the back of the room.
So I just kind of barge in there and I sit down between two people in charge of my phone ’cause that’s where our plug was. And one of the people I sat next to was Rob and he was so just went, hi, how are you doing? I what are you here? And he was just lovely. I didn’t even realize he was a presenter until later.
Mindy Pack: Yeah, he’s like one, he’s one of the best. He’s, I talked to him today,
Julia Norton: such a nice,
Mindy Pack: he’s like, I call him, we call each other our twin flames like.
Julia Norton: Yeah,
Mindy Pack: we just, yeah, he’s a very, if you, yeah, very positive motivational.
Julia Norton: Right.
Mindy Pack: Just, and he’s like, he gets it. Like he’s the one that like literally showed me how to navigate the system and really, honestly, he’s the one that was like, don’t get in your head about this.
Don’t get lost in the celebrity this of it. Yeah. Like you are there for the artist. And I couldn’t be more grateful for his words of encouragement and support, so
Julia Norton: That’s amazing.
Mindy Pack: Yeah. He’s a good dude.
Julia Norton: Okay, so, um. I’m gonna, you know, we don’t have time to do the straw thing too, because like your your thing, you’re good.
I might have to get you, I might have to get you back to do the straw thing.
Mindy Pack: Let’s do it. Yeah, for sure.
Julia Norton: Um, but, uh, I would, I’m gonna ask you this one last closing question then. So if you, uh, could go back in time and give one little nugget to, you know, 10-year-old Mindy. Like, you know, some little bit of advice or a little encouragement or just a little something.
What do you think you’d say to her back then?
Mindy Pack: I would say dream bigger.
Julia Norton: Hmm.
Mindy Pack: Like, dream bigger. Because the only person that can tell you no is you.
Julia Norton: Oh, that’s so true.
Mindy Pack: So I, I would say dream bigger and the world’s your stage, like a lot of hard work, perseverance, you know, and just be kind like the motivation you have in life and be authentic and the relationships and the opportunities will come to you without having an ulterior motive.
So I would say, yeah, be you, you know, I always say be kind, be you. Be empowered. And you know, you’re the only person that can stop you.
Julia Norton: Be kind, be you, be empowered. I love that. And, and, and that really, like from kind of the moment of just meeting you at that conference and the people you brought around you there is just this incredible warmth, real generosity, like absolute lack of competitiveness.
I mean, like, I, I haven’t, uh, enjoyed that kind of, um. Experience of people really just being passionate about the thing. Mm-hmm. And not competing, just supporting each other. And, and it’s really obvious that you just draw those people to you.
Mm-hmm.
Which is, yeah, just so, so lovely. And, and I do appreciate.
All your amazing work, all the stuff you put out there totally for free, helping educate people about the voice and how it all works and the connection with the body and all that kind of thing. So I am gonna say to people, if you wanna find out more about, uh, Mindy, go to mindy pac.com. I’m gonna put a link at the bottom of this, um, uh, episode.
To the voice draws and to the how, to, how the voice draw works, uh, video as well. But I’m gonna bring Mindy back, so don’t worry. I’m gonna bring her back for another episode when we’re gonna talk specifically about the voice draws. ’cause you know, if you don’t, if you’re not using voice draws in your practice yet, um.
Where have you been? And, and let’s fix that because this woman is the queen of them. So, uh, Mindy, thank you again so much for coming
Mindy Pack: up today. This absolutely. I, I love our time.
Julia Norton: Yeah,
Mindy Pack: I love our time together. Eight part series. We’ll meet for coffee, whatever.
Julia Norton: Here we go. It wasnt, you’re on, I’ve got it on camera.
